It seemed like a great idea at the time. Sign folk up to mortgages, sell the mortgages to another financial player who then bundles the mortgage with thousands of others and sells various risk based slices.
It failed in three different ways – two of which we know about, but one which is just emerging.
Firstly the original mortgages were offered to people that couldn’t afford to pay them back, particularly when the so called “fixed” interest rates rose after an initial one or two year period. Much has been written about this (NINJA, Sub Prime etc)
Secondly the riskier slices of the mortgages were vastly under priced, and so the interest rate premium didn’t begin to compensate for the very real probability of a high rate of failure to service the loans.
The third one is a doozy. It turns out that because of the mortgages being sold and sliced and sold, the ownership of the original mortgage is often in doubt. It took Mamie Ruth Palmer in Atlanta, Georgia to bust this one open, in a court case that has just ended a six year saga.
Her bank tried to foreclose on her, but couldn’t prove that they actually owned the mortgage. The bank ended up in the humiliating situation of losing on pretty much all fronts:
Last month she received a settlement from the Bank of New York, the trustee for a vast pool of mortgages that included hers. Under the terms of the deal, the bank reduced Ms. Palmer’s loan balance to $59,000 from about $100,000 and has agreed to accept the proceeds of a reverse mortgage in full satisfaction of her obligation.
The settlement also eliminated about $12,000 in foreclosure fees added to her debt and called for the installation of central air-conditioning in Ms. Palmer’s home.
Roughly $10,000 in legal fees billed over five years by Ms. Palmer’s lawyer, Howard D. Rothbloom, will be covered by payments she has made toward her mortgage while she was battling foreclosure.
Fantastic. Mamie Palmer not only wasn’t humiliated, but she wins a major victory and also gets to keep her home and dignity.
…today, amid the freewheeling packaging of mortgage loans into securities that are sold off to investors, it’s much less clear who controls the note — all of which promises to cause banks enormous legal and financial headaches as foreclosures mount
The problems associated with banks that begin foreclosure proceedings when they do not have proper legal standing are now looming larger in the mortgage meltdown. Loans were heaped into trusts with little documentation of ownership or proper loan assignments — it was all about volume and the fees that came with it — and now that sloppiness is hurting both lenders and borrowers.
Not knowing whom to call is another effect of securitization. In the past, lenders knew their borrowers and vice versa; today the holder of the note securing the property is a faceless investor represented by a trustee, like the Bank of New York.
This all means that the investors that hold mortgage backed securities are less able to get their last recourse of forcing a sale of the house to get their money back. The implications are pretty severe for financiers, and pretty good for homeowners. At the very least it means that the foreclosure costs are going to be a lot higher than anyone previously thought.
Yet another middle man is the company servicing the loan; it has an obligation to the investor to extract all the money it can from the borrower. And because the foreclosure process can generate lucrative fees, servicers have an incentive to drag out the process, experts say.
This is scary – this means that there are agents that have the incentive to screw over both the home owners and the mortgage backed security owners. Not a lot of winners in this one.
Judges are beginning to catch on to all of this.
Arthur M. Schack, a justice on New York State Supreme Court in Brooklyn, is one of the judges who is putting lenders’ feet to the fire. In 14 published foreclosure decisions handed down since Jan. 1, Justice Schack has granted only one lender the right to foreclose. Of the 13 other cases, he dismissed one outright and dismissed 12 without prejudice.
So all in all this is further bad news for the housing trade, for the likes of Citigroup, Freddie and Fannie, but good news for homeowners that are over stretched. But I also have the view that this is good news as it prevents mortgage security holders foreclosing on houses too quickly, and will thus promote alternative courses of action such as renegotiated loans (e.g. for 80% of face value). Renegotiated loans are great where it gives homeowners a chance to pay back a reduced loan rather than declare bankruptcy and walk away from unsustainably high payments.
Lance
You should submit pieces like this to SeekingAlpha (www.seekingalpha.com). It is easy to do – it gets this type of analysis to a much wider audience.
Sign-up and try it.
Cheers
Mark
Amazing it’s even happening here in NZ.
A friend was telling me about her Mortgage. She was trying to refinance, had to work her way through about 4 companies to find who now owned it.
Hi I live in NZ and want to find out how find out who owns my mortgage. Can you get back to me with a contact name or number? I am a layer by training and I am thinking about a class case.
Cheers
Liz
Hi liz,
i live in Auckland and have been studing this subject for some time. Where are you at? have you started your class action? i have just filed a injunction in Auckland re this very matter.
i would be very interested in talking with you.
Can you please contact me, as this is becoming common knowledge on the marae and is known as fractional banking. I maybe able to help. Maree
Hey can you contact me, we are hearing cases on the marae and others are going to challenge the banks.
Hi Liz. Contact me.
You may even want to look more deeply into the legality of money itself. Do banks have the legal right to create “money”? Not according to the Reserve Bank Act yet that is exactly what they do when they create credit and call it money.
There is a paper on my website called “The Nature of Money” which explores the legal nature of money. It goes back over 400 years to the real birth of paper money, known then as accommodation bills. Back in the 1600s judges were often involved in sorting out disputes as to who actually owed who money and how this could be proved legally.
The paper is very detailed and very long but it is a fantastic piece of research. The author is a former bank risk analyst with a detailed knowledge of banking practices. He then studied law to see if there was a legal challenge available to private banking hegemony.
You’ll find the answer in the paper.
Your dead on about creating money out of thin air.
Here is a web site with 40 yrs combine valuable information. Free conference calls and how to write contracts in admiralty teaching free.
Rich and Jack are amazing.
Dear Sir,
Can you please give me the name and telephone number of a lawyer who can help me.
I find myself in a similar mess. I want to re-negoiate my loan but has no clue who owns my mortgage !!!!
warm regards
MANI
I am in the same situation. Ownit Mortgage Solutions closed with me in 2006. I am now trying to negotiate the note and Litton Loan Servicing has done nothing but run me around since April 2008. Come to find out; Ownit filed bankruptcy in 2006. This may be the reason why Litton has been giving me the run around. Finally, I asked them who owns my note. At first they said that they did. I found out that they are only a servicer. They finally emailed me after a month and said that LaSalle Bank is the trustee for Ownit. Now I did more research and Bank of America bought them out. So I finally decided to call the Bankruptcy Judge in Ca, They refered me to a liquidation company. The Liquidation company said that they sold all of Ownit Mortgages. They will call me to let me know who owns it in a few days. So what this all comes down to is that if Litton wants to foreclose than they are sadly mistaken. Any opinions???????
Hi CMC! I was just going through this today and I got the same run around. Do you have information of the liquidation company?
Thank you!
Hi cmc,
I have been desperately trying to negotiate with Litton. My orginal note was owned by OWNIT as well… When I contacted Litton as to who currently owns my note, the only information they provided was “Ownit”….
Do you happen to have any information that may help me out? Possibly the name of the liquidation company?
Thanks
CMC- I am in the same exact situation as you, although I believe I have a viable solution. Please contact me at rbkmiller@hotmail.com so we can compare notes.
did you ever find out who owned your mortgage? I have a mortgage from Ownit in 2006 and need help…
Kristine
If you are in California email me at fdrep@yahoo.com. Indicate mortgage note help.
cj,
I am in Florida. Any suggestions????
Hi,
I find myself in a similar situation. I have been trying to get a loan modification from Select Portfolio servicing, they said first, a
forberance and then they did not modify. Fees and more fees, now again
they want a forberance and they will not lower the interest rate.
I find out that LaSalle is the trustee.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
MP
I am in Florida.
HomeBanc closed my loan in July 06; a full doc, 30 year prime loan.
Oct 07, HomeBanc, now in chapt 7 sold my loan to Chase Home Financial Services, Nov 07 Chase Home Financial Services sold my loan to EMC (Bear Stearns), as of March 08 EMC is now the mortgage servicing arm of J P Morgan Chase. Upon losing my job at the end of June 08 I called an requested a modification package. When I called to inquire about the modification option EMC told me I was denied because I was unemployed. I called back to request the denial in writing. The denial was due to the “loan is in a security and the investor does not allow modifications.” So that’s where it stood while the house is marketed as a short sale. The property has been on the market since May 2006. A contract for purchase was submitted to EMC on 12/2. The last call from EMC was to inform me that the house was approved for foreclosure on Dec 1. A call on 12/11 and a back dated letter postmarked 12/12. EMC cannot find the contract short sale package…in fact it was stated to me “they don’t have nothin’ ” This situation is in Palm Beach County, can only hope that Madoff ended up with the MBS Bond…..then it may be truly lost forever. All the while, EMC tries to be the bad guy.
Florida Homeowners in Foreclosure – We know that not having the note gives the homeowner a great opportunity to challenge there foreclosure! We have started a website to help those who don’t have
the resourced to pay alot of money for an attorney. Although we’re not
free, we have much lower rates than most attorney’s and we have different programs available.
I live in Boise, Idaho. I just got served with a 30 day demand for payment in full. I have been going through a bitter divorce & was suppose to be getting 1/2 of my ex-husband’s retirement. (that is chump change compared to what i lost in the money i had saved for my retirement that through his prior debts with the IRS i got stuck with his prior tax bill & lost all the equity in a home i had prior to marriage. when i had to refi MY home because somehow (probably because he made more money than me) he became the primary on my home refi. I lost all of my equity in that home. we purchased a home in Boise after he got fired and had to move to Boise. His name is still on that loan too as the primary. I am only on the deed. both houses were awarded to me in our recent divorce with the debt therein goes to me. I have waited 10 months for my 1/2 of his retirement since we were married 20 yrs. I have had 3 atty.’s who took my money and then bailed out after i sold everything i could to pay them. the last atty. spent approx. 1 hr. in court and charged me $3,500.00 in a retainer. then he charged me another $1,500.00 to do the QDRO. He did it wrong and it got rejected back in April. I paid for the QDRO but he said he was fed up with quote “my bitching” so he bailed because i would not pay him anymore to do nothing. He refused to change my decree papers prior to a final sign off on them to state for “Adultery” he worded the papers to state i got 1/2 of all of the 401K, IRA, Bonus program, and the company stock as of what was left in it as of the day before the decree papers were signed instead of what was in those accounts at the beginning of the divorce for the last yr. Of course my ex pulled out over $14,000.00 out of just one of his 401K’s and pulled out all the other money out just before the signing of the decree. Now that atty. contends because my previous atty.’s did not do Discovery that he had no way to find out what my ex had in those acct.’s. But i was Pro Se for 2 wks and I DID do the Interrogatories and Discovery. That same atty. was aware of it and had them in his office for the last 7 months. My ex’s atty. told me he refused to respond to them as i did not respond to his. Which i did but the first atty. I had did not send them to him. I have no job and have filed for disability and just got news yesterday i was approved( after waiting 2 yrs). the mortgage co. for the Boise home is GMAC. I am going to send them the 41 page questionaire on who owns the note. My home in Oregon is in the same situation. I actually had to get written permission from my ex to even talk to Carrington Mortgage to make house payments on the home i owned prior to marrying this idiot. I know that the note on it has been bought out at least once as Carrington was not the original holder of the note. I am filing complaints with the Idaho State Bar for the 3 atty.’s i have had who have screwed up my divorce beyond belief but in the mean time i am looking at two foreclosures. My ex filed bankruptcy on May 19, 2009 and remarried another sucker on May 22, 2009 so her income would not count against his bankruptcy. between the two of them they have approx. $6,500.00 a month in income and are now in the process of buying a new $300,000.00 home one month after his bankruptcy was discharged. I have spent all my money that should have gone to paying house payments on Atty.’s I sold my 52′Chevy to pay the last one then after the last payment i made to him which i had to use my house payment to pay him another $900.00 he told me i was “bitching” too much about the QDRO not being done. Any ideas? I am desperate. I have no where to go and i also have the poor innocent cats my ex left with me who will be put to sleep if i have no home for them either. I am taking my ex back into court Pro Se again for contempt charges but he has a very good atty. court is Nov. 18, 2009.
seeking help
hi found your site while on google. same boat here don’t know who owns my mortgage either. started out fairbanks then i think it went to select portfolio. which i can’t find either no where. can anyone help me i live in pa. area near pittsburgh. thanks any help would be great.
Hi, I’m in California and in foreclosure… I asked my loan servicer who owned my loan and they told me that my loan was back by “various private investors”. They wouldn’t tell me who. Can anyone tell me if I would have a case to dismiss my foreclosure?
Hi
Okay, this is cool because you folks get it!! Yeah! Servicing company loss mitigation tactics like loan modifications/short sale are a big waste of time… YOu have to get to the investors/guarantors of the note… Process simplified:
Someone like one the typical servicing companies Originates the loan, they then sell the assets (your note) with a bunch of others (pool mortgage notes together)to a SPV (Special Purpose Vehicle) which is usually a corporation–many times created by the originator as a conduit for cash flow. Once pooled and sold to the SPV then they can sell interests to investors who can be anyone… Securitization… Why? It transfers the risk to the investors, then like stated above there are different risk levels (traunches)offered to investors based on the grade of the paper–is it risky or not? The riskier the greater the potential the return… Now the originator usually services the mortgage notes but they charge fees which are valuable.
They can sell the servicing rights to a third party who will service the note. Cash flows from assets minus servicing fees flow through SPV to bond holder(investor)maybe different traunches unless a pass through. The servicing company ALWAYS gets paid, ALWAYS, they have ZERO interest in helping you with loss mitigation. IT IS A BIG SCAM– they do not want to work with you, they are debt collectors and if they don’t the money from you they will get it from the Guarantor. They always get PAID. It is in the servicing company’s best interest not to spend money on curing your note if you default. WHy? Because they always get paid.
You need to deal with a loss mitigation company who has access to the investors/guarantors. There are very few companies that truly have this capability, we are a front end shop to such a company. We DO NOT charge upfront fees and we are compliant with federal regs… If a company wants to charge up front fees, RUN! If they don’t use third party trust accounts like a typical real estate transaction, run… Ask WHO they negotiate with? If the say your servicing company? Run they have no clue about true loss mitigation practices.
If you want more info– this was pretty basic just respond to this post. There are alot of lies out there and misconceptions…Time to set the record straight and help folks. BTW this meltdown was constructed and we are paying the price.
Best of luck!
I’d like to talk to you, Tim. We’re in the middle of a foreclosure, and could use some good advice. How to I contact you?
Tim you said “If they don’t use third party trust accounts like a typical real estate transaction, run… Ask WHO they negotiate with? If the say your servicing company? Run”. Please explain what this means. Also can you state the entire process of finding your actual lender, if you know? Many thanks.
Hi Hollins
Sure, what I mean is you should not be charged up front fees for services in the loss mitigation space–practices would include retention programs such as loan modifications, and non-retention programs like short sales. Monies should be paid into a third party trust account and utilized as a negotiation tool to show investors of your note or the guarantor of your note that you could make a lower more affordable payment. Companies that claim and promise guaranteed results in my humble opinion are not being truthful. There are any factors that go into say modifications, it’s not about what the borrower wants to pay, it should be based off what the borrower can afford to pay. Through experience it can be closely determined what a borrower might expect to pay in terms of affordability, but the first thing to realize is assessing whether you can build a case to present to the guarantor of the note. The guarantor could be a hedge fund manager, it could be some pool manager in some foreign bank or it could be some insurance company, there is no way to know who owns your note without going through an investigative process. I am sorry I can not give you that process as it is proprietary. BUT, you have to understand what has gone on here in the industry with the securitization of these mortgage backed securities. When I refer to servicing companies I am talking about the company you pay your monthly mortgage payment to… Unless and it is pretty rare, that your note is a ‘portfolio’ note, there is an investor/guarantor that actually owns your note. Meaning it was sold off in a pool of other notes-hundreds, maybe it was packaged with some commodoties too and other things, then tranched to individual investors as part of a fund–I am trying to simplify it… Your neighbor might own a part of that mortgage pool in his portfolio and not know it—but a fund manager manages it.
So my point was, if you want to do a loan mod and you call a loan mod company and ask “who do they negotiate with?” and they say the lender, they don’t know the real scoop and I’ll bet they ask for upfront money– You want to negotiate with the guarantor, the folks who either own or manage the notes. NOT THE SERVICING COMPANIES. SErvicing companies get paid fees to collect debt…that’s it. They are debt collectors and they get paid no matter what. INFACT, servicing companies do not want to cure loans… It is not in their best interest to do so…
I hope that makes sense… There is a lot to consider when it comes to loss mitigation, there are laws too that may play a factor into how many notes can be cured within a pool. PSA–Polling Services Agreements. Particpating in government program like H4H, HAMP, TARP are up to the investors, it isn’t law.
I guess I am saying, have expectations that aren’t based off of erroneous information supplied by loan mod companies… I was simply saying that in my opinion those two questions will help you weed out between the scammers and the real loss mitigation folks.
hi tim, very intersting information from you. i think that you are the first guy i ever encountered in the past year of my loan mod process that has been candid and acually accurate. may i get your contact information..if you dont mind.
thanks.
Hi Vince
feel free to connect with me at Tim@loanmedics.com I’d be happy to answer any questions you may have.
CA Loan originated with National City. Transferred to National City Bank, then transferred “for consideration received” to MERS. Now MERS transferred loan to their collection company. By the way, GMAC is the servicer as of 120 days late. NOD filed.
Help. I know there was a case won in the 9th circuit in Nevada because note could not be produced.
Opinions?
looking for someone, might be the company you spoke of. Tired of gettin screwed around, about to go postal. AHMSI services my note but the last deed transaction is from Deutscha bank to an attorney group to liquedate/foreclose on 12/31/07. Filed ch13 to avoid but payments doubled and everyone I talk to wants up front or short sale or to roll all the bs that they have added to the loan. Anyway, if this is legit and truly genuine email. If not WELL
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What happens if who ever holding your note or part of your note, writes off the debt or the company was liquidated. So if your note was wrote off for business purposes or sold to another party for pennies on the dollar why are we still paying full price with intrest to the servicor, when the note may not exsist or does not exsist in the same form it did when you signed it. If your note or parts of your note were written off, because it was bundle with other debt that went bad and the holding company takes the loss, and shows a loss,than pays less taxes because off this loss, it seems that some where there are hughe gains not being shown by one of the parties involved if some of these notes are still making good on their monthly payments! If the tax system worked as it should we would not need the federal government aka(tax payers) to make loan modifacation, these notes have already been modified the notes have been written down and or off! So it is very pssible that part or all of your note does not exsist and you paying for those who can not and every dime you pay is profit and is not being taken as that, by these companies!
ok, i have been trying to get a home loan mod with select portfolio for about 6 months and nothing has happened yet. i need help, i filled out their paper work and put down my monthly income, about 3000 a month. they say i do not qualify for a mod in loan amount and want to lower my payment by 100 dollars a month. they are asking for a forbearance document and want me to sign it and mail it and pay 2400 a month. what can i do? i am in california and have my own business and had a sale date set for the first week of jan 2010. now it is being pushed back and they want the letter signed and returned in a week. what is my next move? should i ask for proof of who owns the loan? how will that help me? i know the loan has been sold at least 3 times since we first signed the papers as the original company is out of business. some one help me please, i have 4 kids and a sick wife and i dont want to loose my home next week
Get a lawyer. A good one. Oh – and I certainly would not sign something that commits you to something you cannot afford.
Lance, would a lawyer really be able to do anything? at this point i am ready to it quits and just give up my house!! it seems no one cares and if they dont want to help me i doubt paying some high priced attorney is going to help. from all i have gathered, sps doesnt ever help anyone because they dont really own my loan. they get paid more if i default and get paid paid either way. im so distressed and emotionally burnt out
You need professional advice from someone local and from someone that can make things happen. I’m in New Zealand.
Talk to your local political representatives, write to your state and US congressman and senator. Ask them for help in ways where they can actually deliver.
One alternative is to accept you will lose the house and make plans accordingly.
I’ve had ups and downs, and it’s important to keep perspective. Stay in control, stay cool, regardless of what fate delivers. Have a back up plan. If all else fails then you still have your ability to work, your friends and family and your dreams. Worst case you can abandon everything, you can cash up and travel or move, you can start from scratch and suceed like countless immigrants do.
It’s a horrible situation you are in, and I feel for you.
JR. I am also in NZ so don’t have a lot of local knowledge but have you tried talking to HUD or similar state or federal agencies? A quick Google search found this Foreclosure Avoidance Counseling page on the HUD site. Also try this link for tips on avoiding foreclosure.
On the copy of my note the Lender is National City Bank of Indiana and the note holder. The servicer of the loan is National City Mortgage.
Is the lender also the “Owner” and “Guarantor” of my loan? Or at least originally?
Nick
hi everyone, been reading all your comments. Same ol complaints for the past yrs since the tarp was granted to the very institutions that are robbing us! Bank rupcy is not always the best solution. But if it brings out the nitch to sting the servicers because of who owns your notes, its a good thing.
I am 16 months behind on my mortgage with BOA, who are the servicers of my loan, they are not the gaurantors, nor the owners, they took over country wides toxic loans, mine was included but it originated with quality loans, ITC and others.
I dont intend to pay one single dime on this Mortgage, because BOA is operating ilegally all these Mortgages. When they foreclose on me, I will take them to BK court. Why do you think they have allowed me to have so long to 16 months without making a single payment. (I think it was the only way BOA could qualify for the Tarp funds) I know many many others in the same boat.
Others have actually rented out their property, they have been collecting the rent and putting it into a trust account. Meanwhile the Bank is screwing with them. I think these folks are smart.
We need to use the wise bank rupcy judges more.
All that is legal we can use, WE SHOULD USE IT.
THANKS FOR YOUR IDEAS, THEY ARE GREAT,
GOOD LUCK EVERY ONE.
On a slightly different note…
Secured borrowing on property can lead, it seems, lead to finding you have been mis sold mortgages.
I read earlier this year that a lady who borrowed less than 10k with her home as security lost her job, was told that the payment protection insurance could not payout because of implications to do with her partner (the main bread winner).
The solicitor she contacted found traces of severe professional negligence and ended up making a claim against bother the mortgage broker and lender for wrongfully giving her a self cert mortgage.
This is just one example of why credit is so hard to come by these days… Money hungry people!
Yeah good point and remind me very much of the Mis sold Right to Buy scandal effecting thousands of ex-council tenants who have been left out of pocket by their own solicitors and indeed their mortgage broker. Exploitation at its worst!
We’re pro se plaintiffs in an unlawful foreclosure on our home. We are sueing 5 companies, corporations, banks and loan servicers. I can send you our actual case (opened June 11, 2010) if you would like to review it and give us any tips or pointers on how to fight this in court. Our case is pretty hard-hitting in that we are going straight for the “note” being discharged as it was “Monetized” and therefore there is NO NOTE HOLDER BECAUSE THERE IS NO NOTE. That is why all of you are having such a hard time figuring out who the real note holder is. Your original lender “monetized” the loan, per banking rules and procedures. If it was “monetized” (turned from a paper contract or instrument into tangible money, or a written entry in a ledger or computer database as a number)…then the debt has been paid to the lender, rendering the “note” no longer valid. Then the “invalid” note is passed off to a Loan Servicer to continue to collect money for a debt that does not exist. My case is already public information, so we have nothing to hide. We want to help others with this information…and we are open to any suggestions, tips, pointers, advice on how to fight this in court against all the Defendant who are insisting they have right to enforce the foreclosure because they somehow have assumed the roles of trustee under the deed of trust, on behalf of the supposed beneficiary. This argument is “complicatingly simple”, as I call it.
I do not have room her to explain it in its entirety, but I can discuss it via email if you want. My email is mr3rmd729@gmail.com. I can PDF you a copy of our Complaint which contains the position we are taking, complete with all of the laws we are citing. A few examples are: UUC Article 3 § 3-203 Transfer of Instrument , Rights Aquired by Transfer; UCC 3106(d) Unconditional Promise or Order (espcially the very lastsentence in section (a) which states “but if the promise or order is and instrument, there CANNOT VE A HOLDER IN DUE COURSE of the instrument” which pretty much says it all; We are stating that all of the 5 defendants commited prima facie trespass of the express terms of Deed of Trust(DOT) that void ab initio the entire foreclosure processl Cal. Civ. Code 2934(a) and 2934(20)(4); California Commercial Code 3301; other contract laws, banking procedures, statutes, etc. Then you can look them up for yourselves and possibly use these points to help you win your case. Best Wishes to all pro se litigants fighting to save your homes!
will you please email me the complaint that you filed as my foreclosure and original note is with wamu
wamu is no longer and i was in a divorce at the timw that someone burned down my 3 million dollar home (arson)
insurance paid wamu 1.6 million and now that was in 2008 and of course no one knows who has the money or the note
I would like information about your case, tkonaresearch at gmail dot com
I appreciate your help
Thanks